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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 7, 2006 14:04:39 GMT -5
"I'm aware what you think. But I thought that you took in more teachings about honor than that. To do that would be to lose our honor and possibly our soul. And I think it's time you recovered right here."
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Post by sithofmacabre on Mar 7, 2006 22:09:22 GMT -5
Xexilia enters from the same door as Ashley, seeming a bit lost at entering in the middle of what sounded like an argument.
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 7, 2006 22:27:28 GMT -5
Xexilia hears the statement from Thrash, as if it were on replay, that Evan has been kidnapped. Thrash continues on to say that, "Korg was also kidnapped by Borgon the moon and something similar to what Jack and Evan describe. Now, I think it is time we perform a... test upon Jack."
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 8, 2006 1:26:04 GMT -5
Evan sits and stares and says nothing. He takes a swig of the ale, stands up, pops his knuckles and neck and attempts to regain his resolve "What type of test are we talking about."
Jack looks a bit worried "Yeah, exactly what kind of test?"
Wyatt will orb in and nudge Firebrand "Any new updates?"
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 8, 2006 1:27:40 GMT -5
"A truth test. A Tier 6 polygraph equivalent."
Firebrand smiles. "In what regard, little barrier-hider?"
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 8, 2006 1:35:16 GMT -5
Wyatt smiles "Well for instances the current event...tier 6...I don't think Jack can lie his way out of this if indeed he is lying."
Evan smirks "Jack isn't lying...I believe his dumbass got cornered and beat, and Im betting he only signed it to save his own ass, and possibly make a few bucks out of it too." shaking his head "Im honestly ashamed of you Jack."
Jack "Truth test! Ha! Thank god for civilized peoples." (Indeed Jack didn't want anything to do with her..hense him putting up the fight, but he did give in like a pussy and sided with her once profits were put on the table. I wonder how this test will come out.)
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 8, 2006 1:54:45 GMT -5
"That's irrelevant. If he intends to have his primary loyalty be to them, he will fail the test." Thrash walks up and grabs Jack, looking into his eyes. "What is your name?"
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 8, 2006 19:13:31 GMT -5
Jack grins "Jack Twinblades."
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 8, 2006 19:41:26 GMT -5
"True enough. Now: I want you to lie and evade as well as you can on this next question. Did you win the Dark Tournament?"
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 8, 2006 23:02:21 GMT -5
OOC: BTW I know how to pass these tests irl. But IM not sure Jack can delute himself to that point.
"No, I did not partisapate in the Dark Tournament"
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 9, 2006 0:01:27 GMT -5
OOG: No, you know how to pass a polygraph IRL, MAYBE (a lot of people overestimate their ability to do it: the rock in the shoe and so on have dubious efficacy). But that's because a polgraph is a notoriously bad test: Serial murderers can lie without flinching while the nervous can be accused of murder. The number of false positives and false negatives are ludicrously high, and polygraphs are not admissable in court.
Thrash smiles. "That was a lie. A very well-concealed one, but a lie. Now, the relevant questions: Where do your loyalties lie; do you in fact intend to work for them or be undercover for us; did you seek to free Evan rather than harm him; and did you behave in a matter fitting a Crashing Heavens agent?" The actual question that reaches Jack is a torrent of legalese: There's no wiggle room to equivocate here. If he lies, it will not be a lie of omission or selection.
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 9, 2006 3:12:09 GMT -5
Jack keeps a straight face "My loyalities lie with both Crashing Heavens and Itek, I intend to do whatever will give me the most amount of power in the shortest period of time. After signing the contract my intentions were not to harm him, I introduced violent stimuli towards Evan to observe the reactions of the guards, I'd perfered to have taken Nirvana up on her offer of a threeway with her and Evan then to harm anyone at that point in time. Please restate your final question in a more specific manner, with the recent actions of the Crashing Heavens members during and still continuing after the vacation, I do not believe there is a clear outline of what is the proper conduct of a Crashing Heavens member."
Evan grins and chuckles "Jack I think you missed your true calling as a thief in the legality business."
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 9, 2006 5:17:08 GMT -5
OOG: That's Kite to Jack. Tyrant calls her Itek, but that may be mistaken identity or another name.
Xenocratis says, "Equivocation does not serve you well here, Twinblades. And such an attitude is antithetical to the Ranger's charter. You serve justice and the Rangers first and foremost, not yourself. The Ranger's charter is VERY specific, and so is the Crashing Heavens ethics charter, and the fact that you need clarification is indicative. And your attempt to lie through evasion is also not good."
Badcat says, "Nirvana sounds hot, who is she?"
Thrash shrugs. "If the organization you are infiltrating's goals' and Crashing Heavens' conflicts, who will you choose? This is the meaning of the initial question. Your answers were non-responsive."
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 9, 2006 19:27:01 GMT -5
Jack glares "Funny, you use all your big words and your beefy authority all you please. But when I see our member setting up assassinations, illegally run gunning, and a butt load of other...conducted that is not proper for a ranger or a crashing heavens member, I must act. Just because you or another old guard member sanctions it, doesn't make it right." Jack swallows takes a breath then answers "Of course my answer was non-responsive, your question was horribly flawed. Now to answer your new question." he looks around the room "...Looks Thrash straight in the eyes, I'd choose Crashing Heavens, no matter how I may find you to be hypocritcial. Crashing Heavens. No Contest."
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 9, 2006 20:21:11 GMT -5
Xeno sneers then smiles a little sinistrally. "You have some degree of autonomy to handle your own affairs." OOG: Actually, to the best of my knowledge, no assassinations, gun runnings, etc. have been completed, and the beginnings of them have been with a strict eye for ethics. See the Courier mission, for example. "To the best of my knowledge, all of these actions have not been explicit violations of any part of the ethics charters even if they were morally gray, an arguable proposition. Further, none harmed the team; they helped. In any respect, it is the classic move of the equivocator once fully confronted to respond with accusations of others, which would only mean that others had done what you did, an action that is wrong irrespective of how many others have done it. Our judgment may be wrong or right in those other instances, but that is patently irrelevant to this one."
OOG: Remember also that the wording of the questions JACK ACTUALLY HEARD were not the shorthand I gave you but complex legalese that precisely defined each term. I made that quite clear.
Thrash smiles. "While my questions may have begged some technical questions, seeking out semantic vagueness is always possible if one wishes to quibble and not honestly answer... And apparently your actual answer is honest. Well, we will continue to monitor your progress of course, but you will not be eliminated from the group."
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 10, 2006 1:58:07 GMT -5
Evan just stares at Jack evilly, then says "I don't believe him, someone from the other group is helping him, Tyrant you said it yourself. She can do particualy anything, and she'll need him here to spy, and recruit new harbringers." Evan turns to Xeno "Father, please imprision him. For all our safety."
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 10, 2006 3:02:19 GMT -5
TYrant shakes his head. "Itek could not trick this power. For one thing, deceit isn't entirely her thing. She lies and covers up, true, but not because she wants to but for service of what she believes to be a higher goal. No, I believe that Jack's hypothesis has just gained a compelling bit of information."
Xeno shakes his head. "Evan, there are rules. Jack has not been proven guilty. We will put him on probation, but it would be unfair and unjust to do more."
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 11, 2006 4:05:34 GMT -5
Evan beings to boil over in anger "Unjust! Unfair! This is the fucking universe we're talking about! Your home, my home OUR home! You'd risk our way of existence because something maybe unfair!" Evan spits at Xeno's feet "You've lost your balls! This is war as far as any of us should be concerned." Evan points at Jack "That Heretic!, would seek to undermine and destroy us all, and you say its unfair!" Evan takes deep shuddering breaths "When two opposing sides claim to be freedom fighters, the greatest atrocities are demonstrated" Evan looks around the room "I'd hardly say locking him up would be truly inhuman at this time."
Jack just looks blankly at the group and gently says "I don't understand why he has such a vendetta against me. I only did what I had to do."
Evan looks to Fred "May I be excussed?....sir.."
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 11, 2006 12:35:30 GMT -5
Tyrant's body cocks in a odd combination of dismay and confusion. "You are allowing emotions to cloud your judgment, Evan. Even if we are in fact incorrect about Jack, there will be no shortage of spies, observers, thieves, tricksters, and forces, indeed far more powerful than Jack, arrayed against us. In fact, were Jack, Itek, Nirvana and the few others we know all we needed to face, I would be scarcely concerned. I agree, Itek is proposing madness, but the seriousness of the potential problem is no argument unless you can prove some sort of unique link to the ultimate impact, which is clearly false in this situation. Further, Evan, you are being dogmatic rather than examining the evidence. Jack made a legitimate argument that all of the events we had observed could be explained by him attempting to help us: In fact, when he told us that he would help us if the money was right, that may have been code about where his true loyalties lie, since it was a colossally stupid thing to say. Now that we have examined him with a powerful ability, the chance that he could have lied against it is minimal. I had been arguing against it because I found that the evidence was minimal and the likelihood of his behavior being negative was slightly higher given the asymmetries I noted, but that was when we were fighting in the dark: new evidence has come to light, and the scientist must quickly alter or abandon previous theories when faced with evidence. Further, I think the empirical basis for your assertion that those who claim freedom as their motive are somehow worse is fairly specious: in human history, it was the Nazis and the Soviets who inflicted some of the worst crimes, and the American empire may have made paeans to freedom but its classified literature did not bear out that assertion, which brings me to my other point: in actual practice, the type of freedom fighters you vilify are precisely the ones who offer cost-benefit analyses for terrorist or imprisonment actions such as what you propose, and most of those you vilify are also not fighting for freedom in actual fact."
Xeno laughs, but not exactly pleasantly. "I see we have a consequentialist on our hands! Is there no depravity you are unwilling to inflict if you believe that you happen to be doing right in the end? What if you are doing wrong? And what if your action is unnecessary? Perhaps there is one time when imprisoning someone despite all the evidence to the contrary just to be on the proverbial safe side will be vital, indeed save the universe, but that does make it any less wrong, any less dishonorable, and any less stupid. If we commit as a matter of course to suspicion, presumption of guilt before innocence, imprisonment, and the course you seem to wish to take, we will fail even at the most basic levels of intelligence and strategy and the trust that keeps this organization together will crumble! You ask for us to respond with utmost violence to every red herring, like a rabid and paranoid dog. Such a foe is as easy as possible to deal with: The energy they spend destroying phantasms is not there when the real foe has emerged, and further they can be dragged this way and that by false scents. This may indeed be war, though even that we cannot prove because we know nothing about this organization's true goals and membership, but that is no excuse to fight it stupidly."
Fred says, "Wait a second, guys! Emotions are running high and this isn't benefitting anyone. Now, Evan, surely you will admit that EVEN IF Jack is in fact an agent for them, that keeping him under probation given how little we know about them would have a far higher impact than just locking him up. After all, the marginal impact to their organization of one Jack-unit of power is, no offense, Jack, fairly minimal, as with their apparent enticements they can find far more powerful individuals (I will admit there is an asymmetry in that he was able to be a double agent before, but now that is wrecked so the asymmetry disappears), whereas the marginal impact of us acquiring more information is colossal. But sure, I think your contribution to and understanding of this meeting is complete. While we discuss with those coming in, you may leave for... three minutes. But we do need you for further planning."
Xeno says, "I disagree with this, Fred. Especially since we are coming to a vital point: The form that you described to me of Tyrant, Evan, is precisely the form that, according to the Heilenians, freed, funded and set them upon us!"
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 12, 2006 0:25:44 GMT -5
Evan looks at Xeno "Your cutting into my recoupritive three minutes. So please, When my three minutes are up, summon me...otherwise Im finished being here, I have a Crashing Heavens member to devote time to."
Jack will smile at Evan "Evan, I maybe able to help you find her..."
Evan glares at Jack "Silence yourself heretic." Then leaves to his quarters, where he goes to cry off the ordeal and stress.
Jack looks at the group and says "So, probation...what is this going to entail? House arrest...or...."
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 12, 2006 1:30:17 GMT -5
Xeno smiles. "Not at all. That would be useless. You will simply be observed at all times, some ways secret, some ways not. Wear this amulet."
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 12, 2006 13:17:16 GMT -5
Jack agrees and puts the amulet on "Well, She'll be expecting me to return and report to her. If I am to continue to spy on her will need to go back sooner than later." He looks to the group "May I be excused?"
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 12, 2006 20:37:29 GMT -5
Xeno nods, still fuming. "Yes, you may. So, Tyrant: What do you have to say?"
"Only that I have no opinion on the Heilenians and their punishment. It is undoubtedly a ploy by Itek: I cannot shapeshift and have limited abilities to release others from contracts. But I concur, suspicion is in order. Itek wishes to destroy all of you, not out of malice but a sense of justice."
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 12, 2006 22:09:31 GMT -5
Jack smiles "Thank you, and thank you for believing me. I know Evan will come around sooner or later." Jack leaves.
Evan returns 3 minutes later still shaking a bit, a blade to his arm and cutting himself deeply "So...planning" he continues to cut and bleed everywhere, hissing at the pain in his arm as he watchs himself do it. He looks up at the everyone in the group and smiles coldly.
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Post by GM on Mar 17, 2006 13:46:07 GMT -5
"what the hell are you doing" ashley says as he runs over to evan grabbing the blade with his mechanical hand and attempting to pull it away saying "dont start cutting yourself just because this guy isnt locked away" he moves closer to evan and whispers "besides if he really is as you say then we will find him and you will get to put him away yourself, you wont get to see him cry in prison if your dead now will you".
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 17, 2006 15:18:40 GMT -5
Thrash says, "So. All of you: It seems that Itek Excelsior, a being of the second universe, has created a conspiracy to create a fourth universe on top of and replacing ours, apparently like what happened to the second universe to create the third. I would not be surprised if she was involved at least peripherally with the UEG World President's bid. They are attempting to target you, and she in particular seems to know us and our methodology very well. What do we do from here?"
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 19, 2006 3:56:58 GMT -5
Evan points to Tyrant "He's the man you should be asking that question of. He has a grand design, one of which will save us against the...tyranny...of Itek."
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 19, 2006 4:11:41 GMT -5
Tyrant says, "Grand design? If you mean something to STOP Itek, then that is decidedly not my department. In fact.... I have been putting off, so to speak, this confrontation with her for quite some time. Her attempt is facile and idiotic: It is tantamount to advocating genocide on the chance that it will bring back something she has lost. It ruins any chance of sustaining this universe or creating a logical alternative. She will spread her madness to a whole string of cosmoses. But I am no warrior and never have been. I may be Oppenheimer or perhaps Einstein, but not MacArthur. I am afraid I am only in a consultation position here. I will fight, eagerly, but you will have to tell me where to do so."
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Post by Ainsophaur on Mar 20, 2006 0:27:48 GMT -5
Evan smirks "So defensive about the fray Tyrant...I never said a thing about YOU doing anything but laying out strategy, and proposing things for our....future survival..."
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 20, 2006 14:29:01 GMT -5
"Then consider this a bonus of some sort. This has been my fight for eons. Itek will recruit and tantalize any number of like-minded individuals, and she will offer what she can to any number of groups. She is the greatest puppetmaster I have ever seen."
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