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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 9, 2007 22:01:48 GMT -5
Wow, that's...a lot more people than I figured would be better than Hack. Oh well.
XD That would be frickin' awesome. Besides, I'm in the dramatic mood. Make a dead run between the two forces and try to annihilate them both. Unleash all our F2s, decimate their forces, teleport back, refresh ourselves, then go back in and try again, though we may lose track of the necromancer if there's a way for him to escape and he sees we're not on his tail at the moment.
Oooh...if we call in Khs for support, he can use his Battle Meditation technique to lower the combat effectiveness of the Imperium. Also, we can tell the UEG, Renn-Mitte Confederacy, etc. to come into the scene once we teleport out of there so they can take advantage of the weakened Imperium fleet. Sound good?
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 10, 2007 2:48:01 GMT -5
I forgot Foron Verk . Main problem is that right now there's a ceasefire. Ceasefires don't just get broken because of suicide runs.
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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 10, 2007 13:33:47 GMT -5
Can we find their frequencies and listen in on their conversations to find out what started the ceasefire?
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 10, 2007 17:34:56 GMT -5
You can do much more basic than that: Read the newspaper. At the moment, there are some attempts at negotiations and non-violent dealing with the Imperium. In addition, the Godhands are recognized as a major religious zealot threat, and attacking the Imperium while they are fighting off a group of people, some of whom are very nasty, could be very bad too. Also, the UEG has a lot of projects to handle.
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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 10, 2007 20:06:30 GMT -5
I think we could at least try and attempt to convince them that this would be a great chance to deal a viscious blow to the Imperium if we catch them with their pants down. And where do the Godhands come in to this? Are they the guys the Imperium are fighting?
We probably could shatter the ceasefire if we get Sandro to infiltrate the Imperium fleet in this area, attack some key areas so the Imperium thinks the ceasefire was just a ruse, and make it into a covert op mission. Sandro has the Helm of Commanding Evil, so that would look pretty convincing, I think. So once the two forces start the fire fight, we call in Khs and Foron Verk, and get them to perform Battle Meditation. Also, if we get Chosen One here, he can add to the Battle Meditation.
We'll need to find a way through any shields the Imperium has up right now. And wait for the Imperium to finish attacking the Godhands. We'll need to stay out of sight, though I have a feeling they've already seen us. I think our biggest priority once the battle starts, is to get the enemy shields down. Maybe if we got some telepaths in here, they could catch some people and force them to bring down the shields.
Laura will be more of a long-distance gunner, she can try and find schematics on the ships and finding weak points to target. Brent can try and meta-flux the enemy's stats, mostly in the skills area so they lose their skills at handling ships and shift the skill %s to gardening, or something.
I'm thinking we also should break open a plane of existance and bait in some nasty demons, or something. Hollows, spirit beasts, transgressive beasts, demons, technovirus, something. Like in Starcraft, how the terrans used the psi-emitter to draw in swarms of zerg on to the planet.
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 11, 2007 3:29:05 GMT -5
*vicious
Maybe, but if they do that the hornet's nest becomes very stirred up against all those who declared a ceasefire. If they let you attack on your own and send only covert aid, the Imperium will only target CH.
They are an internal monk order's rebellion against the Imperium, aided by monastic orders from all over.
So you're going to make a run around your allies and send a murderous enemy after them first?
The Imperium has a massive barrier shield that has been erected, but due to the nature of protecting that much domain there are shearing points and vulnerable locations. If you wait for the Godhand insurrection to be over, you a) condemn possibly some good people to death and b) have to wait quite a while. The shields prevent not necessarily telepathic attack but most scrying, ergo targeting telepathic attacks and mind control will be egregiously difficult.
After that primary shield, capital planets, fortresses, and other areas have proportionally smaller shields, varying in strength based on importance. Flash points of space become instantly populated with demons, complementing more traditional "mines" (alchemical fields of all kinds of horror, deactivated necromantic hordes, Vicious Circle-style magic effects). Regular ship patrols, as well as wandering infantry legions (more symbolic than real in terms of importance, but nonetheless an aggravant and warning net) function as the active defense networks. In addition, due to losing troops to the Godhand insurrection and needing a more supple military, the Imperium has hired mercenaries, bounty hunters, and made pacts with more dangerous extraplanar forces.
At the time of Keaton's rule, the Imperium's Skull Council (the leading council with the Imperator as the key chair, distinguished from other groups such as the Spine Council, or bureaucracy, and Claw Council, or military leadership) was composed of magicians whose highest tier could only have been 3.5. However, power shift has occurred, and any elite mages could also be a key enemy.
Most of the standard designs are available from either Hack's records, Brunnengus' and Keaton's recollection, or the UEG, Renn-Mitte, etc. They can provide that level of assistance. That'll allow Laura to target.
As AI and necromantic pilots, that may be somewhat harder than you might expect.
Jolok Ba Na Ti Gra might be able to get a splinter cell of Stormguard as well as some associated patriots. Helvena and Chavez have donated a total of 34,467,000 to the cause for mercenaries, supplies, etc. Buying robots, turrets, etc. would be quite helpful, as would recruiting some folk with money.
Also: Non-CH Rangers can be recruited for the cause.
Only difference: Innocent people.
So far, your plan requires Khs for Battle Meditation and all the NPCs listed for killing zombies. So who else?
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Post by Vincent Hack on Mar 11, 2007 14:12:03 GMT -5
have an idea, following in mace's idea, we make our own plane of existance, one where there are no innocents to get in the way, and then follow up with mace's plan
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 11, 2007 20:38:18 GMT -5
...Why not just do this in the Evil Dimension, then? Problem is that if you do that the real Imperium isn't harmed.
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Post by GM on Mar 11, 2007 19:41:43 GMT -5
well there was this really shitty semi power ranger knock off call v.r. rangers or something like that but the reason im bringing this up is that they had the abilty to pull the battlers and a copy of the surrounding turrain into a cyberspace like program doing this left all the innocents back in the real world free from harm as the good and badguys tossed around lazers and jujitsu techniques like candy bars.
Another plan is to have a group specifically to pull innocents out of the area once that is done we can start ripping dimensional holes of doom or whatever the hell the rest of you guys want.
A good group for that is something small and unnoticable but effective. Ardunim, (spelling is probably way off but I am talking about warren's protoss) Marche, and Helvena. The protoss is practically unhurtable and can use his knowledge of everything about everything to find them then start altering space and stuff to help get them out. Marche and Helvena can protect him from anything that could theoretically hurt him and Marche can morph into something big to physically transport innocents out. Helvena can heal and protect the innocents with moves like cover.
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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 11, 2007 20:45:12 GMT -5
Okay, I'm confused now. The rebellion is our ally? Oh, right, fighting the Imperium, got'cha. I think we should get a group of about maybe three down there to help support the rebellion, and possibly get a ship in there to pull them out so we can use them for on-ship combat.
What'cha mean 'make a run around our allies'?
Could try attacking the Imperium in the Evil Dimension to get an idea of their tactics, basically use the dimension as a simulation.
Hmm...could we send in someone who would be practically invisible and have them find those vulnerable points? If we can find those points, we may be able to get a small strike force to go after that shield generator, or would THAT be suicide? I'm thinking about shields on the ships, mostly. If we can get our people behind the main barrier shield, and get some snipers with heavier weaponry to punch large holes in the shields of the ships, I think we could very well have an easier time at flattening their numbers down to a manageable level.
Now that I think about it, we may need to finish some quests first to get enough firepower, money, and have the right weapons for dramatic flare. Here are my suggestions for things to do and quests to finish:
Autonomous Fleet- We need more ships than the ones we have right now. Even a few ships may be a great help. Mobile Suits- Fred, if I remember correctly, you said you'd love it if people got their own mobile suits. I think we should take this under consideration and buff up the mobile armour division. The Meta-Plane - Brent's seeking out a plane that could hold a lot of useful information, and possibly a meta-game item or two. This may hold answers to the Imperium's weaknesses. Colossi Hunt for the UTS- The UTS (Universal Transmission System) could be helpful because when someone is linked to the android, the android can funnel spells, psionics, etc. to nearly any point in the universe. The enemy may or may not be able to see it coming. Imagine mages attached to him, and all of them launching their F2s, that could lead to several F2 level attacks happening in various places without the mages being exposed to danger. This could be set up back at the CH complex, and the mages could have a huge supply of energy recovery items nearby so they can keep it up for a small duration of time. Money- We need money to hire mercenaries, pilots, etc. so we can combat the enemy. Or, better yet, try to counter-bribe the mercenaries on the enemy's side so that the Imperium thinks the mercs are on their side, but the mercs will just infiltrate the enemy and slaughter them from the inside out. Terrornaught- Finish Denios Miracles thread and acquire the Terrornaught. Cleft of Dimension- Go in there and try and acquire demon allies. Heavens Chimera- May or may not be a very good addition to the battle to just crush enermy opposition. Dark Tower- May be a good idea to go into the tower and see the result of what focusing our attack on the Imperium or DI's rival will do. May provide some crucial information. Apprentices- Get more Apprentices and/or find weapons for them to work with.
I know that's a lot, but I think if we divide up our efforts, we could make this work. THe money idea may be necessary to get some good fighters on our side. Heck, maybe recruit the Dark Tournament teams. That may be useful. Some covert op missions may be necessary, like sabotage or sniping or assassination in general. Taking out those elite mages I think would be a good idea.
I'm proposing the idea that we don't just rush into this, we have to take in consideration of all the possibilities. Those demons and extraplanar forces should be our first priority, weakening their defenses without them noticing. Bringing down the main barrier shield may be a very good goal indeed. Small strike team goes in, takes out the generator. wreak havoc at the capital so that the enemy has to recall ships, making it so we can spread the enemy out a bit and maybe spend our time enjoying slaughtering them across the galaxy.
If we can get some rituals going that cause status effects, I think we may have a good headstart. Hire some small organizations to do the rituals and we are freed up to just bleed the enemy dry. We probably should also consider biological weaponry. Cancer mages would be good for that. Battle Meditation is for sure going to be useful.
Anyone have suggestions for group-wide spells that just hinder the enemy all the more? Battle Meditation lowers combat effectiveness, get some disease in there and they could end up just falling dead, get hackers together to fuck with the AI pilots, etc. There are endless possibilities folks, COME ON!
EDIT: BB's idea on a dimension where the innocents won't get hurt, that's probably possible because in the anime X, the warriors could create a dimension similar to the terrain but no one else would get involved in the fight and it would be like there was never a fight unless the person who set up the dimension got killed. I have a feeling though that Fred will probably say that when we set up the dimension, how can we classify innocent from hostile.
EDIT-EDIT: Maybe we should also hunt for a Lost Class called Drama King: When the odds are against you, and you deliver a dramatic speech, you invigorate the team with various buffs. Could be quite useful.
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 12, 2007 0:36:02 GMT -5
I have noted to a few people that the Godhands are not entirely good guys either. Fully aiding them as anything but a temporary alliance of convenience may not be ethical or within CH/Rangers charters. Further, getting to their planet may prove daunting in and of itself, though obviously if they cut through from behind they may relieve the pressure on the Godhands. Another key to bring in mind is stellography. The Godhand planet is nearly at the center of the Imperium space. DI's rival's planet is far away in one direction, on the opposite side of the Imperium from the UEG. The best infiltrators on the team, in various ways, are: Dalas, Envy, Viktor, Barney, Weasel the Artful Dodger, Rak'ash Shadowtooth (though she's somewhat better at GETTING OUT than getting in ), Problem is that the primary shield generator, and there isn't just one (since it's ritualistic, not technological), is on the capital planet. The proverbial lion's den. Your plan, as stated, was to provoke the Imperium to attack the UEG, Renn-Mitte, Zengzi, etc. who are currently honoring a ceasefire (though the Zengzi could be hired subtly through Mr. Amigeddi's contacts), and thus cause them to fire back. So you're stirring up a hornet's nest and sending them at people you ostensibly like. It's pretty fucked up. Which would be based, largely, on data compiled of what you already have. Better to run automatic simulations: Based on that, the core variable is how much domain you move through. But if there's a surprise, the ED is just as bad as any other simulation, or only slightly better. First of all, the Imperium typically uses contracts that will punish betrayal. Second, even if they didn't, virtually no reputable mercenary will change sides, no matter the counter-offer (unless you offer every group enough so they can safely retire for their whole lives, and most of them still wouldn't want to). If they do that, their reputation gets tanked and they can't find work. They also get Imperium assassins coming after them. The team is spending some on the Children's Hospital, but it could from individuals and from the group coffers get several hundred million. You already have a budget of 68 million from two people. Core problem with all this: More time spent, less cohesion, less surprise, more likelihood of discovery, generally more dicking around. If you can quickly finish these quests before everyone is fully ready and the plan is complete, then you can get their benefits, and I will allow some play during some of the campaign due to your space-time alteration powers. For numbers, though, if you bring along Xi you get a ton of various types of clones, and you're not as bad as you imagine because of Jack, Pierre, the necromancers, etc. However, you want to keep some numbers back at home. If people could get the Tzemke producing rapidly somehow, it'd help. The Heavens Chimera would be impossible to do in time: It needs all three elements, only two of which are even begun. Rituals to harm them are bad ideas. They have people to protect against that. But Rayzen could craft a ritual to turn YOU into status effect whores. Frank Brown and G'hino can also do rituals, including a ritual to protect you against dark magic. Biological magic isn't so good against... the undead. Again: Undead. And like I've said before, they don't use AI so much. If you guys could, en masse, take the bad guys away from the good guys over a massive interstellar area, then set up your already dangerous plan of bringing in X factors, maybe. That's one problem. Another problem is how to stop them from screwing with the spell with their own massive dimensional power. A third is that you don't really have anyone who would do that extremely well, though being Avatars all of you are very strong spatio-temporally. Fourth, anything that you brought out would have a very high chance of being both desirous of innocent flesh and/or suffering and capable of breaking the spell or effect. ...I guess? That could be derived from Valorian, actualyl. Also: Brunnengus and Daedrous are in on this too! Two very useful additions, since ONE Gren took Keaton to repel and now Brunny has 3, and they don't have Keaton anymore. Another key: You could use this to evacuate refugees. Helvena would want to lead that portion, convincing people to temporarily leave planets until the Imperium can collapse or be reformed.
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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 12, 2007 15:49:46 GMT -5
Alright, given the stellography, I think we'll need to split ourselves into two teams. Nay, three. First we break through the barrier with Raysh's barrier-breaking methods, then teleport within Imperium space into, damn it, FOUR groups.
Group one will go to the Godhands planet and just outright obliterate the Imperium ships while sending a few members down to the surface to hold back the enemy.
Group two will come up from the opposite direction group one is hitting at and confuse the enemy fleet. This will force them to divide their efforts.
Group three will attack the main Necro-Rival forces across the system, giving a splinter group of the CH time to sneak inside and take them by surprise.
The fourth group is the splinter group.
Once we get the splinter group inside, they're on their own and group three jumps into the main battle to further disrupt the enemy fleet.
Scouting out the weak points should be a responsibility of someone who's not involved in the CH, like a Ranger, so that we don't further extend our resources.
And no, my plan was to ask them to come in -after- we're finished mopping things up so they could take the opportunity to press the Imperium into a corner.
That much money should be enough. Question is, what to spend it on? Mercenaries, hire pirate fleets, etc.
How do the Tzemke produce in the first place? Eggs, growth chambers, etc. If it's breeding, we could get them some potions to stimulate the process. : P
Yes, our numbers at home are rather thin. Mace is next to useless (or maybe he is useless) since he's in the godly-shield quarantine. He probably could run automatic defenses if they use technological controls, but other than that, he's screwed. I'm thinking Brent and the android (that I'm going to spend my quest time going for the most) should spend their time back at the base. Brent can hook-up to the android and the UTS can send his healing spells to all members of the group, and this would be best because the UTS can reach to any point in the universe (as far as I know), and that would allow Brent to double his spells, given the android's power-saving benefits.
Basically: Brent stays at home with the UTS and can better seperate his time to both of the attacks, without having to teleport between them, this can handle the question who's going to handle healing.
Other than that, Jerry, Nekia, and Mephiasu (as far as I know), are staying at the base as well. I recommend the Apprentices stay at the base, though I know there's one that's nearly to the CH's standard in power, so I think he/she could accompany us on the assault. Or, send the Apprentices down to support the monks, which may be a better idea. I also recommend getting some good Rangers to protect the base.
Alright, we'll do that then. Rituals for making us into status-effect whores and a ritual for defense against dark magic. Awesome.
And yes, we should go after the class and maybe evacuate people so they don't get caught in the crossfire. We need a team to go hunting for that class.
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 12, 2007 22:39:11 GMT -5
First off: Planning Award for noting the primary import of my stellography comment. Second: All this serves is a temporary reprive for the Godhands, while apparently simultaneously attacking DI's rival's forces, which requires going PAST Imperium forces. No permanent damage is done. If Helvena and the rest are going to sign off on such a mission, they'll want something more serious, like a destruction of the ship/army producing capabilities of the Imperium. Rangers can be procured for this, especially volunteers. Zee, Grunkt, Bahk and Kalaii have buddies in their Breath of Fire 1 World branch and elsewhere, and a simple call from CH will bring in a ton of people. If you really luck out, you might get former Steel Falcons or some of the other elite groups! Mammalian-like breeding, though there are some queen-like females (not included in the DIO because they are wholly civilian) that can simultaneously carry up to thirty babies. For this campaign, they've produced: *10 Stardoom (including dispatching A, their first Stardoom!) *324 Manwalkers *51 Sonar *93 Diggers (very helpful for fortifications on planets, barrier piercing, etc.) *57 Shield Beetles *38 Elixirs *18 Battle Queens *154 Fireflies *93 Nodebugs (a very nice communications and logistics network) *349 Carrier Bugs (a good pipeline) *256 Scout Bugs *255 Morphoplasms *403 Med Bugs! *126 Worm Squad (great against undead) In addition, the RSN has managed to produce eleven extra projections with a very heroic effort. Also, thanks to you, Mario and Jess, the group acquired a good berserker/leader type, Grimsha. An operating budget of 6.8 billion dollars is enough? In all honesty, though, it took more than that for Hack to buy his Dreadnaught. Considering the brief time period, leasing automated ships or robots could work, but any that get destroyed would have to be replaced (maybe with CH-produced stuff, which would satisfy most procurers). Hiring mercs could also work, but considering that their survival rate will be limited, most will charge a lot. Larger groups with a higher success rate would cost a lot to hire, even for a short time. Of course, some people might have a bone to pick with the Imperium and thus offer discounts. With Swaggard's name in business and the Worldships trolling the galaxy, the group may have some sway with pirates. However, the Imperium has a relationship with some of the more corrupt pirates. With the collapse of the Gemfist Pact, a lot of the pirates became bad, but with the rise of the Old Guard, that trend has been reversed. Luffy-associated fleets, for example, would love to fight the Imperium. And if someone could find Gemfist Pact people quickly... However, it is possible to get much more money. The team has billions and billions of GP worth of collateral, and Kriltil and Ganba can move money and investments around to get tons of stuff. They could, for example, pre-offer services (such as bodyguarding and other missions) to rich folk in exchange for contributions. Ah, much less disreputable, but unfortunately it would be a unilateral violation of the ceasefire and very, very costly in a number of ways for the allies in question. If they break quarantine, Mace would function as a magical X factor of surprising proportions. He'd be destructive to both sides, but destructive no less. So Brent and the android would provide distance healing? Could work, but remember: If they're going to help the whole time, in likelihood they will be exhausted too. Being in the group and away from combat provides two edges in terms of energy retention, but the distance from battle provides a debit. And the UTS can be limited just like anything else. So the only person you're contributing to this rush is... Laura? Your group was sort of key to the attack. So far, expected people (in alphabetical order) are: Albert Vahauser Anderson II Anduris Ash M Barak Vorkans Barney Briareus (see Dame) Bombardi II Brunnengus Chael Kahal Chavez X. Chosen One Cisero Crash Fox Daedrous Dame Insurmountable (has basically said she's coming or she's stopping you from going) Dark Inferno Denios (for the fight of it) Felhame Foron Verk G'hino'ba Grimsha Grohptitt Hack Helvena Ikash Harmuk Jolok Ba Na Ti Gra Kell-Jylar Keryis Khs Kumo Laura Kemilton Laura Wild (with the Book of Defense) Marche Maximillian Mr. Fo Nekia Poen Grafficane Quion Rak'ash Rashel Jacob Raysh Rayzen Robert Ashiyoki Sandro Sarashito Taklinn Victoria Viktor Welka Zelen Erishkai and Danara decided not to come for odd reasons. Krane may come depending on the ruling of Dark Gaia, her own bizarre intuition and allies' assessment. So far, that is 47. Prototype 08 and Ardunum would be really vital. Two of the four Paradigm NPCs should come just for the muscle of it. So far, one, Welka, the Ki expert Klingon who is a master of pins of all kinds, is coming along, with her Divine Mandate blades. The other options are all very compelling. Ufo, the Nebruyin ringout master, has massive Tech, and his innate repulsion powers could slow down the Imperium space lanes and reinforcements. Niilor the Ork has massive psionics and is primarily focused on absorbing ludicrous amounts of damage and running opponents out through exhaustion or death. Theta has colossal magic and is a master of draining, which could keep the team going. Do note, of course, that even with all these people, all of Justin's and Tim's characters are at home, as are Spira and Milky. Mike's 5, Cory's 5, and Keith's 5 (unless they end up coming) make 25 of those core people. Ruben and Seiryu scarcely forum post, so that makes 27 PCs. Off the top of my head, one can add from NPCs Birral, Kingsley, two Paradigm NPCs, many of the new liaisons, Duke Rohin, Handyman, Gluttony, Dalas, Envy, Dr. Og, HX-7, Akali, K'rtak, Frayrunner, Hobol Sackwhite, Mavar Sheetwind... Why don't you set a limit for remaining NPCs? Say, keep 20 at the minimum back at the complex? Additional Rangers to help defend the CH complex is a very good idea and very easy to do. The Apprentices are quite strong, especially the ones from Jinx and the bandit group that attacked the team, because all of them have Dark Tournament wishes, but assisting the Godhands is very dangerous to do on their own. Indeed. Also, Grimsha's totems can help, including turning people into berserkers . Hope you can find the Crisis Orator super fast .
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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 13, 2007 0:52:48 GMT -5
Thank you, hopefully I can put that to good use in the future.
That's actually a great idea. We need to hit ship factories and evacuate the Godhands, though I think you said before that whey'd refuse to leave. We could try and hold Imperium space, though I have a feeling that that would be incredibly difficult. Any one have any suggestions for how we handle relieving the pressure off the monks?
Ship factories of note, we need to send someone in to scout those out or do we have any information on locations? I want to flat-out flatten the enemy fleet. We need to strike, and strike fast. Nuke those bastards. I'm thinking we need a fifth group to go jumping from one point to the next, leading assaults on Imperium shipyards. If we get the autonomous fleet, that could be a great start on a team to attack shipyards.
Alright, we'll put out a call. we need people to plot vulnerable points on the shield and to find some major shipyards as well. We need mostly people who can shred ships and aren't afraid to get dirty.
That's great. Maybe something that improves fertility? Or a spell? I know there is a spell out there somehere that guarantees a child for every horozontil bop. Or can we order some potions to act like libido enhancers and get these guys putting out?
I'm thinking if we can get the Manwalkers armed well enough, we can get them into on-ship combat on fortresses and get some demolition experts to blow those bastards sky high. Grimsha would be useful throwing the Tzemke into a frenzy so that they could just massacre the entire fortress, ya know.
Yes, that would be a problem. Seeing as it's so dangerous, we'll need to stick to Rangers I guess, or we'll end up using all our money and not have much left for other things. I recommend we spend money on buying UAV fighters, mobile suits, and potions. Ritual materials, demon parts, etc. We need all we can get to keep the team moving.
And isn't violating the ceasefire the point? Also, didn't you say we could possibly get a splinter cell of the UEG in on this? Send them in to take out the elite mages, making this easier?
And yes, they will be, but that's why I said we need lots of energy recovery items. Given my idea of the android's body, he has an energy saver on him that reduces energy costs for spells by nearly half, since this is his main use.
Key? My team isn't of more use than anyone else that's just joining in for the hell of it. Jerry could fuck some people over and Laura is good at screwing ships open with her caster rifle, but Brent's doing his part and so will the android. Mace needs to get out of that quarantine and kill someone. Once he gets how to control his powers, he can probably mess people up like crazy.
Theta will be valuable, and probably should stay in the safety of a ship, reinforcing energy and health levels. If Niilor can greatly reduce how face reinforcements come in, we could slowly pick them off. Fighting a large fleet will run us dry, but like in Thermopylae, numbers mattered little in such a small pass, so if we can thin out forces, it may make one hell of a difference. Gravity well technology may be a great investment as well.
Sure, twenty. We don't need so many back there.
Good point. Maybe we could also get them to lead the manwalker Tzemke in marine boarding parties and get members down on the planet instead, so we don't run the risk of getting the Apprentices caught on dangerous ground with uncertain allies.
Speaking of allies, I was thinking of making contact with sun elementals in Imperium space, but I know communication is difficult, so maybe a cult of the sun willing to help us? One oppressed by the Imperium and their cry for vengence will be heard by the elemental hierarchy?
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 13, 2007 4:07:34 GMT -5
I think I may have been talking about civilians too, but yes, the Godhands want an apocalyptic last stand and aren't likely to succumb to reason or to the notion of retreat.
Holding Imperium space is infinitely more difficult than just doing a damaging "suicide" run. It requires fortifications, keeping the barrier open, etc.
Again: The Imperium is not well mapped out.
Do you mean the ENTIRE fleet? If so, not gonna happen.
You guys will have to lead first. No one else is going to risk breaking a major ceasefire to invade a horrible empire that not even CH can single-handedly take down.
I should note, though: Oonagailes was moving against DI's rival. He might be convinced to get some Cosmo-Knights to attack the Imperium instead, on the grounds that doing so would help kill a few birds with one stone. You could also call in Mantoryu and Soul Society members given that the team has Jerry, Seiryu, and a number of shinigami-trained people.
...What guys putting out? The Tzemke? Please quote in response. They're not going to start fucking just to accomodate your desire for militarism. Primarily, you just need to put more % into expansion.
Grimsha would be useful in that, but you need tons of weapons that would be very powerful, which would be expensive. You'd also want ships (though they can ride on Stardooms).
[quoteYes, that would be a problem. Seeing as it's so dangerous, we'll need to stick to Rangers I guess, or we'll end up using all our money and not have much left for other things. I recommend we spend money on buying UAV fighters, mobile suits, and potions. Ritual materials, demon parts, etc. We need all we can get to keep the team moving.[/quote]
...But UAVs and mobile suits are expensive too, and if you lease them you have to repay the full cost of replacing them. Any mercs that have a bone to pick with the Imperium or are just generally crazy could work.
They were key because they were so heavily involved in the planning. Shinigami are vital against necromancers, Brent being so flexible and powerful is important.
...No, violating the ceasefire is something you DON'T want to do. See, neither CH nor the Rangers ever signed or agreed to a ceasefire.
Jolok Ba Na Ti Gra might be able to get some UEG people to help, but they would be completely disavowed by their government. Rogue agents.
Unfortunately, range, cutting through barriers, and fighting off opposing mages raises that cost, and the original cost for the caster is still there. Further, energy can't just have potions dumped at it. Eventually, waste builds up and exhaustion of different kinds mount. And healing people while keeping tabs on them, even with the Node Bugs to target, will also cost.
So who will you go for? You'll want to keep two, or at LEAST one, back at the complex because they are the strongest non-Tyrant CH members. If Ufo can be used to crowd them and reduce the infuence of their numbers, he may be the biggest help from a theatre perspective, whereas Theta and Niilor may only have tactical significance.
Unused PCs do form a backbone of defense, sure, but nonetheless. With that in mind, unused NPCs include:
Akali Amdalus (sort of wants to stay back because of depression, but the Falling Dragon could be hugely useful) Beau Birral the Dumpster Girl (could be awesome at taking their junk and forming stuff from it - Handyman has a similar skill) Clobberhorn (wants in for a good brawl) Crystal Mix Dalas Dr. Blammo Dr. Og Kalintaro Duke Rohin Envy Excellia Frayrunner Gluttony Handyman (sort of wants to stay back to keep working, but also wants to vent rage) Illtide Jack 'Maverick' Armstrong (definitely wants in) Jangadan Jonas Schopenhauer (wants to stay home) Kingsley Klene K'rtak Lateratis (doesn't want to come) Luomau In'a'woma Mavar Sheetwind Miguel Ashokasura Naga Norlin Netshield Pierre LeMontagne (definitely wants in) Pyetja Zendress R Rantraopa Shadowshine Stral Vendrazs Kaz Weasel the Artful Dodger X-Rog Xi Zee
I should also add: Totema summons would be excellent. Since everyone can summon Valorian, that can be helpful (since they replenish differently from other summons and don't use your normal energy source, basically burning off Awards).
Oh, and Chosen One, Cisero and Poen are also in.
Could help a lot.
Most cults of the sun don't bother helping individuals against others, not to mention don't actually communicate with sun SPIRITS (usually sun gods), but Luomau In'a'woma could help. Besides, the spiritual area of the Imperium is almost totally impoverished and used.
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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 18, 2007 12:40:53 GMT -5
I think we should call in the Cosmo-Knights and the Shinigami. We can have them help with the attack on DI's rival.
The manwalkers can ride on stardooms, but what about those carriers? I don't really know what those do, but given the name...
Those rogue agents and a member of the CH should go and target those elite mages you were talking about earlier. I think Laura would be up for the job, seeing as this would be more useful. Target nercomancers or whatever. Take them out for a distance.
The android and Brent can move on to the Dreadnaught, probably, if Hack will allow us. That way we're through the barrier and the distance is cut down.
Welka and Niilor should probably stay behind at the CH. The other two seem best for the mission.
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 18, 2007 15:35:42 GMT -5
Read the Updates post as to what has happened here, folks! Essentially: The team took out the first planet in the attack path and has acquired money and the ability to hide as Imperium troops for a bit. EDIT: I should note to Mace in particular but to people in general that this will allow some degree of cycling before the final suicide run. Well, you can talk to Genryusai, Mantoryu, Seiryu, etc. for the one and Mauler, Oonagailes, etc. for the other. Sarashito, Jin, Mauler, and some other people should also be able to get some crazy Alter types who hate authorities. [FN: 300]. Yes, those can cart armour, materiel and troops. I REALLY wish you would quote what I'm talking about. You mean some UEG, possibly Renn-Mitte/Zengzi people, etc. The Stormguard are 100% willing to work with you guys; for everyone else, to have CH members "take" them, they'd have to acqueisce to your command chain. Oh yeah, money wise, the team got 1 billion GP! That's making the total war chest 1.068 billion. Actually, now you might be able to do it from the captured planet, at least for a bit. ...You do remember that you want to get the Imperium to retreat first so that DI's rival comes in, right? If it's at all possible, you want to find a way to fight both without losing any energy. Ideally, you'd draw them into a trap where the Imperium would destroy DI rival troops and be hurt in the process. Maybe destroy a weakened group after it's engaged with the other people. (Though the Cosmo-Knights may want to just directly engage... but you can always try to convince them about the timing ). ...Welka is the one who pretty much is supposed to be coming, because she is a master of pinning and positive ki, and with her Mandate of Kaless she can produce mass effects. However, you do bring up a good point, I suppose, in that Ufo and Theta are the ones with the AOE attacks
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Post by zeebedee on Mar 19, 2007 13:29:23 GMT -5
The way I see it we have a few options. I've skimmed the last few pages so if I say something already suggested, we can all know the grasp of my knowledge. I spent way too much time last night discussing things with Fred, some of which I think bears repeating.
Firstly, I will be working as hard as I can to earn Sam in time for the actual Imperium attacks. He's gonna help a LOT.
Secondly, I would argue to my fellow CH members that a political campaign should not be launched until we launch an initial assault. While there are good diplomats like Chosen One and such, the best motivator would be even the slightest public victory.
Thirdly, in reference to some battle tactics, I'm sure we all have our ideas. One I've mulled over is a kind of bait and switch strategy. Something to be launched only once for the purposes of research only.
Here's what we could do. We could target some resource rich or important set of close planets and take them. The importance comes not in our taking of the planets, but to see how the Imperium would respond at this point. If nothing happens, we continue making a mess in the system until they do. Imagine, a serious fleet of the imperium sent to take back these planets that we've taken. At this point, we need all the tacticians paying close attention to the exact movements of these troops. We desert the planets and let them recapture them, and before they leave again, we spearhead the fleet, moving as far in as we easily can, then blast our way out in whatever direction we can. this will scatter the fleet, if anything else. Then the attackers fall back and wait for the enemies to chase them. At this point, the magi and longer range units that have stayed back out of range til this point begin barraging the pursuers and the main attacking fron turns and continues to assault them, wiping out the entire fleet. We then quickly strip the land of resources and poissible men willing to fight for our cause and leave. We don't want to keep the planet because we don't want to give the imperium a set target to attack. besides, it would harm them more to come back to a hostile planet with no resources than it would to come back and conquer it again.
Again, this strategy is a one time use for observation purposes only.
Another strategy worth considering is gathering together our strategists and finding specific planets tailored to CH members. For example, Superman is normal on Krypton, yet a super man on earth. We find such planets on the fringes of the imperium and pick away at them, slowly drumming up support and resources and try to pick away at them.
Now, it is important to note that we will not be able to just rush the capitol, nor will we just be able to don our badass caps and bust every head in the imperium. What we need to do, when we are ready to begin the assault, is to make powerful crippling stikes in strategic locations.
We need to cripple their infrastructure economy and source of troops, those damned necromancers.
Another strategy is to defy what I just said, and to don our badass caps and rush the capitol. We won't make it, and we'll retreat as son as it gets tough, but it would jump us leaps and bounds in terms of respect, support and strategerie.
We also need to start getting some technicians to build some warships, and I'm not talking about pansy ones either, so anyone who has a good mechanic charra, lets start building ships, shields, and anything bigger than a planet.
We have another enemy that I would rather not ally with, because it's mistakes like that that can sneak up behind and shank you.
Dark inferno's rival. We have a few choices in how to deal with them, but I would stress that while alliancing ourselves with them is an option, I strongly am opposed to such an idea. Think of the history books in the times to come.
We could try to make a wager with them on who could capture the capitol first and somehow win. We could also not wager with them and just try to take the capitol before them and use the resources of the newly conquered empire against them.
Anyway, I have some more, but let me mull over them a bit. I don't want to sound like a moron or anything
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 19, 2007 14:52:16 GMT -5
Indeed, he will.
Quion argues the converse. There HAVE been public victories: The Imperium has lost to the UEG and Renn-Mitte. They have been discredited. Keaton and Brunnengus are with the group, and there have been both public and private encounters between Imperium members and the group (such as with Keaton and Brunny in the Dark Tournament). Glenn argues that CH's track record hasn't been proven, but it has. Its reputation precedes it. Further, because the team will have some Stormguard members with them, they do have the UEG "halo".
The main problem, though, is that a public attack will raise the Imperium's immune response and drastically harm recruiting possibilities. Infiltrating a planet, talking to people, giving them hope, eliminating a few minor oppressors to show them that they can win, and setting up resistance cells can happen without raising red flags.
I think the primary problem with this strategy is that it's stuck in a two-dimensional mode of conflict imagination. If they can flank you from all directions spherically, that strategy isn't as likely to work. Also note that, because THEY have incredibly powerful magic, they're not as easy to out-range as one would think. But it is a very good plan to try a few times, and given the stupidity of many Imperium defenders, it could work over and over again.
Also, stripping planets of resources for your cause is a bit... sketchy. Especially if it were once populated or inhabitable.
Some planets do offer some tactical advantage, but it's also likely that their defenders use that tactical advantage similarly.
Other things that could be taken down are commanders, vaults of weapons or money, information networks and bureaucracy, etc.
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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 19, 2007 19:05:07 GMT -5
I'm opposed to the idea of cleaning planets out of their resources. Mostly due to the nature-loving people on the team, they'd probably stop helping if that's what we're going to do.
For giant spaceships, instead of getting a duplicate of Hack's we could also put in for the battlestar Mace had in mind. It'll lessen the drain on the android since it's designed to cut down energy costs. Also, it's equipped with several spell shell turrets. Though Mace also put in for that device that screws over magic fields, like, some damaging energy field and such. Though on a higher setting it can seperate atoms and obliterates souls...so I say go team!
Though if you're looking for something that won't benefit me, I recommend a large communal ship with a super weapon to attack in a different area. We already have that X Factor monster attacking one area, and the Dreadnaught is where the main attack is, I assume. Get another ship to attack at another angle, confusing the enemy.
By the way, don't gravity-well projectors in Star Wars keep ships from jumping into hyperspace...? And allowing them into an area, I think...
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 19, 2007 22:42:54 GMT -5
Well, if it's a lifeless planet, or you take resources that aren't necessary for life, they may not mind too much.
Wasn't the Battlestar bigger than Hack's ship and therefore more expensive than his? Also, isn't that just a teensy bit selfish to want all of the team's money to be spent on your ship, however useful said ship may be for the function?
The weapon idea you had could be part of a system, maybe some kind of Doomsday "missile" that's designed only to screw the Imperium once.
They make it more difficult, not impossible. This would be relevant if the FTL method the Imperium used was hyperspatial. Because it is magical, gravitational distortions actually benefit it.
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Post by Mace Parshath on Mar 19, 2007 23:34:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I figured that idea wouldn't fly. I was actually just trying to be a smartass. : P How would that 'missile' work?
Wow, shortest post for a good while in this thread.
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 20, 2007 20:59:24 GMT -5
It would be automated, would have built in weapons, maybe produce masses of robots, absorb magic energy and disrupt it in widening wakes, whatever the team designed. The core of the design is that it's sent once, lasts for as long as possible, and is eventually destroyed, blows up or what not, which means its energy expenditure is massive for a finite period.
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Post by zeebedee on Mar 21, 2007 13:39:17 GMT -5
In my response, I would like to contribute another Idea I had with fred. I will use Chosens Onslaught training to create cerebro and alter it so we can use that to focus his ability to sense the nature of the force to weed out the stronger necromancers (stronger meaning more powerful, also meaning raising more dead stuff)
Fred and I agree that initially this process will not work because of cloaking magic and other things, however as time progresses, Chosen will be able to use the Force Cerebro to create a star map of our toughest enemies, giving us some direction.
I've also decided to modify his telepathy as well, so he will be able to coordinate and organize attacks. for e.g. CH members infiltrate a planet, chosen uses his vision to map out the planet, his power stronger with a smaller area to concentration. He would then be able to tell and warn of things, and it would work like a sophisticated radio system that couldn't be intercepted. He could accept and relay messages to the party!
Also, in response to some peoples opposition to my tactic involving stripping the planet, of course I didn't mean that I would leave the people to die resourceless, i meant that we would try to recruit as much of those as possible and leave enough resources for them to live comfortably but take the surplus and useless materiels to their survival. Also, in reference to fred, of course it could go sour, but thats how fun retreating is.
Also in reguards to the rival- I was being fecitious with the second statement, but think for a moment. If we beat the imperium with their help, they will end up fighting us. they aren't good. They will want the rest of the pie. and some of the troops that rallied under our flag will go to them.
So yeah. Godhands I think would be cool enough to team with, unless fred hasnt told me something...
We need our magi to work with chosen (if he can make them cerebros) to break down any elements of the Imperium they can, and maybe Chosen one could do some diplomatic work.
Cisero is definately in, but he isn't gonna be a major player. He'll accompany anyone on any campaign they want as an NPC-I give em that authority fred, so if they do inject some Spearmancer wit and strategy.
Sam will be a big player, and you'll see why, with what he brings with him and his strategerie (which by the way, is why I'm holding back on some of my strategies-because he isnt here) and his combat experience and diplomacy...(@_@ lots a stuff, but I've played him for like 10 years)
Poen will be fun for any stealth missions, so PM me if there are any planned. He also added a DIO for allya. Shadow spirit, which we will have once I find the independent shadow temple and nab it, so just be patient for your pal pozi.
As for my contributions, I plan on giving my golds (there are never enough) to the cause until we have enough capitol to reimburse me.
So, we covered poen, sam, cisero and chosen. Please PM me if you have any ideas/collabs/questions or such. Also, Fred. I'm out of whenever minutes (thanks partly to you XD) so call me after nine, like, every night.
I'm usually online after 6 o clock pacific standard every night. My IMs are AIM PoenGrafficane Yahoo Valient_dragoon MSN Valient_dragoon@yahoo.com
Once Sam is here we'll begin some raids and such. Fun times. I love this thread.
Zebedee out
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Mar 21, 2007 14:29:33 GMT -5
At the moment, it will still have a tactical usage, especially in terms of warning the team when an enemy may be arriving.
The team actually isn't too bad for internal transmission at relatively high speeds. First of all, communally as Avatars they can communicate. Second, Node Bug and Sonar Tzemke greatly enhance communication and information processing. Third, the group always has internal communicators and alerts of very good techno-spiritual quality. And everyone with a Force Spirit or other substantial free-roaming spirit can 'whisper' to others. Having redundancy on this score could be useful, but it will also reduce CO's ability to, say, fight.
Again: Is it really your right to take THEIR resources, "surplus" or not? Those resources that you take could be a way for them to restart an economy.
Eh, not really. DI's rival is rational, but he also wants to have absolute control over his troops. This makes his army much more homogenuous than the Imperium or CH.
Basically, thinking about this like game theory: All three of you are in a triangular array (that's simplifying because in fact there are dozens and dozens of factions and arrows, but this group settles into a triangle). No enemy can attack the other and destroy them decisively: DI and the Imperium each have too many troops to be overcome either by the others' or by an attack by CH, but they have too few troops to risk sending at each other, and CH's power is insufficient in one attack run to eliminate the other. At this point, a major advantage (arguably the core advantage) CH has is that this is a total surprise attack. This means that the Imperium and, to a lesser degree, DI's rival have no idea that one prong of the triangle is acting. Another advantage is that, due to the Old Guard, the UEG and the governments of Hael, and the other people who would rally to an invasion of Hael/Earth to try to attack CH, the CH can risk much more in an offensive gambit. However, the core remains the same: The game is to distribute one's resources between defense and pressuring enemies. Alliances of convenience can be formed, but the only way to win in an alliance of convenience is to find a way to commit less resources than the opponent [this brings up an interesting idea: CH could easily agree to let DIR send less troops on the condition that no other betrayal occurs; while a betrayal may occur, DIR may find that it is in his best rational interest to not bother, since he is already "winning" in this instance and showing good faith would keep CH from back-stabbing him first, taking advantage of the "sucker exemption"].
I DID tell you something, and mentioned it here frequently: They're not exactly good guys. They LOOK like good guys and talk like good guys, but Chosen One might diagnose them with classic Dark Side difficulties of overzealousness, inflexibility, etc.
I REALLY recommend you use the words or phrases "magicians", "magic-types" or "Sorcerors" instead of "Magi" since Magi in FB has a very specific denotation/connotation.
Okely dokely. Cisero DOES have more power than CO, I'd say, just from being around in CH slightly longer.
"Will add" would be much better, especially since the Shrines of Independence haven't been beaten by anyone else yet...
How much was that again? You had beaten Aegogropilon X and gotten Poen's stockpile of trade goods.
And there you are. I have nothing to add.
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Post by Vincent Hack on Apr 28, 2009 12:03:26 GMT -5
Can I get a Re-cap of all this?
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Post by Frederic Bourgault-Christie on Apr 30, 2009 12:58:28 GMT -5
Essentially, the team was trying to figure out how to destroy the Imperium, the necromantic empire that Keaton formerly headed. The last event that happened (aside from planning) was that Jin and the rest got a toehold in Imperium space without the Imperium knowing. From there, Cory's team captured a large druidic planet. Now the question was how to proceed with the campaign.
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Post by Vincent Hack on Apr 30, 2009 13:10:28 GMT -5
Would these people be on good terms with the Imperium? Or would they be like Dac and the empire, outwardly obedient but secretly hate them?
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